Most recent edit on 2008-05-18 22:35:45 by WillyPs [How can I reset to use default, config set ACL's?]
Additions:
How can I reset to use default, config set ACL's?
When I first started having spam problems, I set a number of page's write acl's to myself of selected individuals... when it got worse, I found out how to do this through the config file. But any page that I set the acl's manually, remained set. And now, I am getting spam comments, so I set the config file to allow only registered users to comment. Then I noticed that any page that had write acl's set as non-default also would not accept the comment acl change made in the config file. Do I need to edit the DB to remove non-default acl settings from every page?
Edited on 2008-05-10 14:23:29 by WillyPs [double quoted "SandBox2" to remove it from pages wanted]
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Edited on 2008-05-06 21:06:23 by WillyPs [fixed some errors in previous edit: wrote blurbs about my three wikis]
Additions:
WillyPs
I originally installed this to try out 1.1.6.4RC1, then 1.1.6.4 when it was released. So I figured since I had installed it anyway, I would use it to write about styling Wikka.
Deletions:
I originally installed this to try out 1.1.6.4RC1, then 1.1.6.4 when it was released. So I figured since I had installed it anyway, I would use it to write a tut on styling Wikka.
Edited on 2008-05-06 21:01:26 by WillyPs [wrote blurbs about my three wikis]
Additions:
My first Wikka install, DescentiaPedia∞ has recently been re-styled, I've made some major changes to the layout including a right column navigation box, and an expanded footer showing recent changes, recent comments, and more. Comments appreciated!
Oh, I had such great ideas when I started this one... but I haven't done much with it lately. Other than delete comment spam. Captchas are vastly annoying, but I can see why people use them.
I originally installed this to try out 1.1.6.4RC1, then 1.1.6.4 when it was released. So I figured since I had installed it anyway, I would use it to write a tut on styling Wikka.
Deletions:
I have an installation of EasyPhP on my machine so I can experiment without having to upload files... and most likely break existing websites! I installed the trunk version of WikkaWiki, then 1.1.6.4rc1 was released, so I installed that, too. Now that 1.1.6.4 is released I'll upgrade soon. EasyPhP does not operate exactly like a lamp stack server would, but it's pretty close. The main difference I've noticed is that 'rewrite mode' is off. I have been unsuccessful at turning it on.
I upgraded DescentiaPedia∞ to 1.1.6.4, the installer failed to write the config file, in fact erased all of it but the version number. It did this twice. The first time, I restored the database and folders from my backups. My second attempt, I decided to try copying the config file from my EasyPhP install and make changes to it as necessary. This worked. I had installed WikiFile, now I am going to move all those files to another folder and manually link them. I noticed there are odd pages (like UserSettings) that had files uploaded from, so I am thinking spam-members may have uploaded files through the WikiFile mod. For that reason and for the fact that every file has to have a page (which makes for a lot of pages with no content) I am not going to attempt to reinstall WikiFile.
http://wush.net/trac/wikka/ticket/736∞
Edited on 2008-04-26 11:41:55 by BrianKoontz [response]
Additions:
- There is already a process in place to prevent scripts from posting (unique form IDs). But this is really intended to thwart automated scripts. Anyone is free to take a generated page and modify the POST parameters (as can be done here). --BrianKoontz
Edited on 2008-04-25 20:18:24 by WillyPs [So the spammer...]
Additions:
http://wush.net/trac/wikka/ticket/736∞
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- So the spammer must have marked a link to the comment section before I deleted the page. Perhaps some 'if page exists' code could be added to the comments code. Ok, I see exactly that in ticket 747. Or better yet, is there a way to prevent scripts from posting? --WillyPs
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http://wush.net/trac/wikka/ticket/736#preview∞
Edited on 2008-04-25 17:21:38 by DarTar [here's the proof]
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Edited on 2008-04-25 15:27:12 by BrianKoontz [request for working example]
Additions:
- Comment ACL of * allows for posting of comments regardless of page write perms. When you delete a page, comments are deleted. Have you compared timestamps of the comment and page creation record? --BrianKoontz
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- It's not supposed to be possible, as comments are deleted from the DB prior to a page being deleted. Can you reproduce the issue? --BrianKoontz
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- Can someone provide proof/reproducibility of this "bug"? I see one anecdotal example, but if it's not reproducible, there's not much can be done about it. --BrianKoontz
Deletions:
- Comment ACL of * allows for posting of comments regardless of page write perms. When you delete a page, comments are deleted. Have you compared timestamps of the comment and page creation record?
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- It's not supposed to be possible, as comments are deleted from the DB prior to a page being deleted. Can you reproduce the issue?
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- Can someone provide proof/reproducibility of this "bug"? I see one anecdotal example, but if it's not reproducible, there's not much can be done about it.
Edited on 2008-04-25 15:26:05 by BrianKoontz [request for working example]
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- They are. The bug/feature is different: if you have the right to comment, you can comment. If you can comment by default, you can comment on non-existent pages, too. --Nils (Ticket: 747)
- Can someone provide proof/reproducibility of this "bug"? I see one anecdotal example, but if it's not reproducible, there's not much can be done about it.
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- They are. The bug/feature is different: if you have the right to comment, you can comment. If you can comment by default, you can comment on non-existent pages, too. --Nils
Ticket:747∞
Edited on 2008-04-25 12:21:59 by NilsLindenberg [ticket opened]
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Ticket:747∞
Edited on 2008-04-25 11:52:32 by NilsLindenberg [reply]
Additions:
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- They are. The bug/feature is different: if you have the right to comment, you can comment. If you can comment by default, you can comment on non-existent pages, too. --Nils
Edited on 2008-04-25 07:32:43 by BrianKoontz [reply]
Additions:
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- It's not supposed to be possible, as comments are deleted from the DB prior to a page being deleted. Can you reproduce the issue?
Edited on 2008-04-24 21:59:06 by WillyPs [re:re:How is this possible?]
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- No, the page had been deleted some time (weeks) ago, the comment showed up recently. There was no page history, because there was no page. How can a comment be made on a page that does not exist?
Edited on 2008-04-22 17:49:36 by BrianKoontz [how is this possible? (reply)]
Additions:
- Comment ACL of * allows for posting of comments regardless of page write perms. When you delete a page, comments are deleted. Have you compared timestamps of the comment and page creation record?
Edited on 2008-04-22 17:16:43 by WillyPs [How is this possible?]
Additions:
How is this possible?
Today I had a spam comment in a page that I had deleted some time ago... When I clicked the link to the page on the recently commented page, it asked me if I wanted to create it. So I did, and there is already a spam comment! What's up with that? How can they leave a comment on a page that does not exist? Page writes are restricted to a select few users. Read and comment are *.
Edited on 2008-04-15 20:45:07 by WillyPs [added comments about wikifile]
Additions:
I upgraded DescentiaPedia∞ to 1.1.6.4, the installer failed to write the config file, in fact erased all of it but the version number. It did this twice. The first time, I restored the database and folders from my backups. My second attempt, I decided to try copying the config file from my EasyPhP install and make changes to it as necessary. This worked. I had installed WikiFile, now I am going to move all those files to another folder and manually link them. I noticed there are odd pages (like UserSettings) that had files uploaded from, so I am thinking spam-members may have uploaded files through the WikiFile mod. For that reason and for the fact that every file has to have a page (which makes for a lot of pages with no content) I am not going to attempt to reinstall WikiFile.
Deletions:
I upgraded DescentiaPedia∞ to 1.1.6.4, the installer failed to write the config file, in fact erased all of it but the version number. It did this twice. The first time, I restored the database and folders from my backups. My second attempt, I decided to try copying the config file from my EasyPhP install and make changes to it as necessary. This worked. I had installed WikkaFile, now I am going to move all those files to another folder and manually link them. I noticed there are odd pages (like UserSettings that had files uploaded from, so I am thinking spam-members may have uploaded files through the WikkaFile mod.
Edited on 2008-04-15 20:37:22 by WillyPs [upgrade fail]
Additions:
I upgraded DescentiaPedia∞ to 1.1.6.4, the installer failed to write the config file, in fact erased all of it but the version number. It did this twice. The first time, I restored the database and folders from my backups. My second attempt, I decided to try copying the config file from my EasyPhP install and make changes to it as necessary. This worked. I had installed WikkaFile, now I am going to move all those files to another folder and manually link them. I noticed there are odd pages (like UserSettings that had files uploaded from, so I am thinking spam-members may have uploaded files through the WikkaFile mod.
http://wush.net/trac/wikka/ticket/736#preview∞
Deletions:
Installed 1.1.6.4, check it out.∞ I'll use this site as a test site, and documentation of my efforts at customizing.
Edited on 2008-03-22 19:28:35 by WillyPs [installed 1.1.6.4]
Additions:
I have an installation of EasyPhP on my machine so I can experiment without having to upload files... and most likely break existing websites! I installed the trunk version of WikkaWiki, then 1.1.6.4rc1 was released, so I installed that, too. Now that 1.1.6.4 is released I'll upgrade soon. EasyPhP does not operate exactly like a lamp stack server would, but it's pretty close. The main difference I've noticed is that 'rewrite mode' is off. I have been unsuccessful at turning it on.
Installed 1.1.6.4, check it out.∞ I'll use this site as a test site, and documentation of my efforts at customizing.
Deletions:
I've just completed installation of EasyPhP on my machine so I can experiment without having to upload files... and most likely break existing websites! I installed the trunk version of http://wikkawiki.org/HomePageWikkaWiki∞ then 1.1.6.4rc1 was released, so I installed that, too. Today installed rc1 on a public server, if anyone wants to, they may check it out.∞ I've checked them with FireFox, IE7, Safari, Mozilla SeaMonkey and Opera. Safari renders the fonts a little different but otherwise looks good.
Edited on 2008-02-26 13:51:10 by WillyPs [rc1 feedback]
Additions:
I've just completed installation of EasyPhP on my machine so I can experiment without having to upload files... and most likely break existing websites! I installed the trunk version of http://wikkawiki.org/HomePageWikkaWiki∞ then 1.1.6.4rc1 was released, so I installed that, too. Today installed rc1 on a public server, if anyone wants to, they may check it out.∞ I've checked them with FireFox, IE7, Safari, Mozilla SeaMonkey and Opera. Safari renders the fonts a little different but otherwise looks good.
Deletions:
From WikkaFolksonomy:
- The more I think about it, the clearer it is to me that Blogs and Wikis are really instances of the same meta-level idea. They should be unified into a single system. Blogs organize information temporally along a single thread. Wikis organize information spatially around a set of nodes representing ideas. Blogs have no concept of space. Wikis have no concept of time. What we really need is a single framework that enables information to be organized freely in space and time. You can create Nodes that represent ideas and link them to one another just like you do in a Wiki. You can post articles to any Node (or set of Nodes), just like you do in a Blog and they appear sequentially by time. When writing any article you can enter Wiki commands to quickly link to, or create new, Nodes. This is the best of both worlds. You can then filter it by Node name, Time, or both. (From: Integrating Blogs and Wikis -- A Higher Unifying Framework∞)
:: :: ::
Neither the Wiki nor the blog are very conducive to two way conversation. In the wiki anyone can present ideas, and anyone can respond, but the conversation is broken by the lack of a time construct. That is, conversation can be presented on the page in any time order. There is, of course, a comments section for each page which counters this somewhat. The blog, on the other hand is a single sided discussion by nature. Again, comments are added. In both cases, the comments are generally presented as more of an afterthought, it is clear the user is commenting, rather than participating.
Another popular collaborative software is, of course, the forum. The forum is all about conversation. It does however, lose to the wiki in the presentation of information materials. This is because the multiple contributions often get lost in the many pages of responses to the original poster, if the original poster does not alter the original post to reflect the knowledge gained during the discussion. How often do we visit a forum with a question, find the perfect topic title, only to find 25 pages of semi-off topic chatter, with the answer in a few posts buried in the middle somewhere? This, and the fact that the topic may have receded a few pages, leads to the same questions being answered over and over, the few who know the answer becoming weary of answering the same questions. But, without encouraging discussion and soliciting feedback from a variety of users, we might never have found an answer. So, the forum is necessary, but not well suited for the purpose of, say, documenting a software product for the purpose of user support∞, or building a comprehensive guide to a game∞.
A blog is very time oriented, it almost forces a user to view the most recent post first. The forum is also time focused, but allows the viewer to choose category and topic. A wiki focuses on the viewer's freedom to choose the category and loses the time-linearity ability. What would a combination do? A mash-up of wiki and blog has been suggested, and might be a good solution for some applications, but personally I don't see it. What, really are we adding to wiki with this? The ability to categorize and filter by time?
I believe a better match would be a wiki and a forum. I envision a forum where a wiki page would head every topic, and could be modified to reflect the final output of the discussion. One or multiple threads could follow, also with the option of additional wiki pages. Each post would have the option of being included in the wiki page. The final wiki pages could then be presented with or without the forum attached, depending on the needs of the user, and of course the degree of wiki page completion.
As an example, suppose someone wanted an answer to: 'How do I install a widget in XYZ software?'. If the developer of the software anticipated the question, and deemed it important, it would not matter much what script powered the website, the answer could be a few clicks away. Unanticipated or less than important questions (in the eyes of the devs) will be harder to find, and the scripting becomes much more critical. In the Open Source community, in particular, questions with unknown answers becomes the most challenging to the scripting used, as the devs may need to pull from other user's experiences to answer the question. And since the dev's should not be forced to answer the same questions repeatedly, it's also a critical mission of the script to enable users to find the information they need, without having to ask repetitive questions.
- Wiki provides page organization.
- Wiki provides page categorizing.
- Wiki provides easy page creation.
- Wiki provides pages that are easy to edit.
- Forum provides topic organization.
- Forum provides topic creation.
- Forum provides topic organization by time.
- Forum provides community involvement.
So, to get the answer to the question, a user might look at wiki pages on various topics, and not find a clear answer. He would the go to the forum, and post a new topic. Momentarily confused by the option to create a wiki page, he would likely ignore it and continue to post his question. A more knowledgeable user would see the post and reply, clicking the box, 'Create wiki page: (wiki page name) from this topic'. When he has added his reply, it is added to a new wiki page, under the content of the original poster's first post. Future poster would have the option, 'Add this reply to wiki page: (wiki page name)?'. When the solution is found, it is an easy task to clean-up, format and organize the final wiki page. Probably change the name of the topic, too, as the original poster likely named it 'total noobz nedz help pleez' or something like that. Ahrrg! But, that's a topic for another rant!
:: :: ::
I have a website that has a wiki and a forum. I am going to merge them. The wiki had problems with spam, due to the unmoderated registration. As a result, I locked all the pages from editing, to all except the few legitimate contributers. So, the first part of the merger will be to modify the wiki to use the forum's registration. I'll also merge the static portion of the site, restyling all three to a single theme. The forum has user selectable themes, it would be nice to carry this across the integrated site, but that would not be a high priority. The next step would be a further merge of the wiki into the forum and the forum into the wiki. That is, visitors will be able to find pages using the wiki category navigation system, and the option of viewing the forum discussions that are involved in the page as part of the wiki. Whereas on the other hand, participants of the forum will be able to take part in the editing of the wiki page, which will appear as part of the forum thread.
:: :: ::
I've just completed installation of EasyPhP on my machine so I can experiment without having to upload files... and most likely break existing websites! I installed the trunk version of http://wikkawiki.org/HomePageWikkaWiki∞ then 1.1.6.4rc1 was released, so I installed that, too. Today installed rc1 on a public server, if anyone wants to, they may check it out.∞
Oldest known version of this page was edited on 2008-02-26 13:10:16 by WillyPs []
Page view:
From
WikkaFolksonomy:
- The more I think about it, the clearer it is to me that Blogs and Wikis are really instances of the same meta-level idea. They should be unified into a single system. Blogs organize information temporally along a single thread. Wikis organize information spatially around a set of nodes representing ideas. Blogs have no concept of space. Wikis have no concept of time. What we really need is a single framework that enables information to be organized freely in space and time. You can create Nodes that represent ideas and link them to one another just like you do in a Wiki. You can post articles to any Node (or set of Nodes), just like you do in a Blog and they appear sequentially by time. When writing any article you can enter Wiki commands to quickly link to, or create new, Nodes. This is the best of both worlds. You can then filter it by Node name, Time, or both. (From: Integrating Blogs and Wikis -- A Higher Unifying Framework∞)
:: :: ::
Neither the Wiki nor the blog are very conducive to two way conversation. In the wiki anyone can present ideas, and anyone can respond, but the conversation is broken by the lack of a time construct. That is, conversation can be presented on the page in any time order. There is, of course, a comments section for each page which counters this somewhat. The blog, on the other hand is a single sided discussion by nature. Again, comments are added. In both cases, the comments are generally presented as more of an afterthought, it is clear the user is commenting, rather than participating.
Another popular collaborative software is, of course, the forum. The forum is all about conversation. It does however, lose to the wiki in the presentation of information materials. This is because the multiple contributions often get lost in the many pages of responses to the original poster, if the original poster does not alter the original post to reflect the knowledge gained during the discussion. How often do we visit a forum with a question, find the perfect topic title, only to find 25 pages of semi-off topic chatter, with the answer in a few posts buried in the middle somewhere? This, and the fact that the topic may have receded a few pages, leads to the same questions being answered over and over, the few who know the answer becoming weary of answering the same questions. But, without encouraging discussion and soliciting feedback from a variety of users, we might never have found an answer. So, the forum is necessary, but not well suited for the purpose of, say,
documenting a software product for the purpose of user support∞, or building a
comprehensive guide to a game∞.
A blog is very time oriented, it almost
forces a user to view the most recent post first. The forum is also time focused, but allows the viewer to choose category and topic. A wiki focuses on the viewer's freedom to choose the category and loses the time-linearity ability. What would a combination do? A mash-up of wiki and blog has been suggested, and might be a good solution for some applications, but personally I don't see it. What, really are we adding to wiki with this? The ability to categorize and filter by time?
I believe a better match would be a wiki and a forum. I envision a forum where a wiki page would head every topic, and could be modified to reflect the final output of the discussion. One or multiple threads could follow, also with the option of additional wiki pages. Each post would have the option of being included in the wiki page. The final wiki pages could then be presented with or without the forum attached, depending on the needs of the user, and of course the degree of wiki page completion.
As an example, suppose someone wanted an answer to: 'How do I install a widget in XYZ software?'. If the developer of the software anticipated the question, and deemed it important, it would not matter much what script powered the website, the answer could be a few clicks away. Unanticipated or less than important questions (in the eyes of the devs) will be harder to find, and the scripting becomes much more critical. In the Open Source community, in particular, questions
with unknown answers becomes the most challenging to the scripting used, as the devs may need to pull from other user's experiences to answer the question. And since the dev's should not be forced to answer the same questions repeatedly, it's also a critical mission of the script to enable users to find the information they need, without having to ask repetitive questions.
- Wiki provides page organization.
- Wiki provides page categorizing.
- Wiki provides easy page creation.
- Wiki provides pages that are easy to edit.
- Forum provides topic organization.
- Forum provides topic creation.
- Forum provides topic organization by time.
- Forum provides community involvement.
So, to get the answer to the question, a user might look at wiki pages on various topics, and not find a clear answer. He would the go to the forum, and post a new topic. Momentarily confused by the option to create a wiki page, he would likely ignore it and continue to post his question. A more knowledgeable user would see the post and reply, clicking the box, 'Create wiki page: (wiki page name) from this topic'. When he has added his reply, it is added to a new wiki page, under the content of the original poster's first post. Future poster would have the option, 'Add this reply to wiki page: (wiki page name)?'. When the solution is found, it is an easy task to clean-up, format and organize the final wiki page. Probably change the name of the topic, too, as the original poster likely named it 'total noobz nedz help pleez' or something like that. Ahrrg! But, that's a topic for another rant!
:: :: ::
I have a website that has a wiki and a forum. I am going to merge them. The wiki had problems with spam, due to the unmoderated registration. As a result, I locked all the pages from editing, to all except the few legitimate contributers. So, the first part of the merger will be to modify the wiki to use the forum's registration. I'll also merge the static portion of the site, restyling all three to a single theme. The forum has user selectable themes, it would be nice to carry this across the integrated site, but that would not be a high priority. The next step would be a further merge of the wiki into the forum and the forum into the wiki. That is, visitors will be able to find pages using the wiki category navigation system, and the option of viewing the forum discussions that are involved in the page as part of the wiki. Whereas on the other hand, participants of the forum will be able to take part in the editing of the wiki page, which will appear as part of the forum thread.
:: :: ::
I've just completed installation of
EasyPhP on my machine so I can experiment without having to upload files... and most likely break existing websites! I installed the trunk version of
http://wikkawiki.org/HomePageWikkaWiki∞ then 1.1.6.4rc1 was released, so I installed that, too. Today installed rc1 on a public server, if anyone wants to, they may
check it out.∞
DescentiaPedia∞
Prepare For Descent!∞
Rant This Space!∞
CategoryUsers